-[theme music playing] -[Reese Witherspoon reading]
So fun! Whoo.
-Cheers! -Cheers!
Hi!
[Reese] I'm doing a show highlighting powerful,
ambitious women in different fields.
Let's go back to the top of the frame.
Okay, how did I do?
[Reese] And I would love to share with you
what makes these women so inspirational to me.
[gasps]
Love, Reese.
I'm here on the Disney lot today
to meet with one of the most imaginative directors of our time.
Ava DuVernay.
Ava's third feature film, Selma,
was nominated for a Golden Globe and two Academy Awards.
Her documentary, 13th, won two Emmys
and was also nominated for an Academy Award.
In addition to directing films,
she created the hit television show Queen Sugar.
Action!
[Reese] Just recently, Ava and I worked together on A Wrinkle in Time.
Cut! Nice.
[Reese] Ava is the first black female director
to direct a movie over $100 million.
She's a force.
[upbeat music playing]
Hello. Hi, guys. Is she in there?
-Hey. [exclaims] -[DuVernay laughs] We're matching.
Oh, wow! We look alike.
-How you doing? -Hi, Reese.
Oh, my gosh, I'm so excited to see you.
I'm always happy to see you. Reese!
-Thank you so much for doing this. -Thanks for visiting us!
Yay. Where should I sit?
-Sit there. -Okay, perfect.
-This is the end part of the movie-making. -[sighs]
-Wow. -Usually, I'm with
-the beginning and the middle... -[gasps]
...with you, but...
It's so amazing.
Yeah. All the places where we were.
So cool. All the costumes.
So, I'm just excited to be here and hear more about, like,
you journey as a... As a director, and how you...
I mean, I was reading today about how you went from your first movie
-that was $50,000. -Mmm-hmm. Yeah.
And you were, like, "I could either buy a house..."
-Right. [laughs] -"...or I can make a movie."
-Right, right, right. -And you made a movie.
-I made a movie. -And it was only seven years ago.
Yeah, it wasn't long ago.
You know on Facebook where they have these, um...
This new feature
where it tells you what you posted two years ago?
-Mmm-hmm. -Two years ago
today was the premiere of Selma.
-Wow. -Seems like so...
Seems like I did that film so long ago.
-For me... -Oh, yeah.
I've done 13th, I've done Queen Sugar, I've shot A Wrinkle in Time.
-Right. -I've done so many other things,
but it was only two years.
I remember I met you... The way we met was,
you had Selma coming out and I had Wild coming out.
Oh, right.
-It was a new step for me, for sure... -Mmm-hmm.
...and I was really nervous and insecure
about being a first-time producer and starring in things,
and I immediately saw you and Oprah...
-[laughs] -...at an event,
and I was, like... [gasps]
"Hey, ladies!"
"Hey, I'm here, too."
-Full of ladies, and I was like... -Yeah.
...it made me feel more comfortable.
But all you've produced and all that you've done since then,
I mean, in such a short time really cementing yourself as,
you know, one of our foremost women producers,
-so it's exciting. -Well, I'm sure trying,
-and I think part of that-- -Yeah. We work fast.
-Yeah, we work fast, and you have to. -[laughs]
-Don't you have this sense of urgency... -Yeah, I do.
Hollywood, in general, you know, windows open and close.
The people that were, you know, highly regarded five years ago,
that now you don't hear from. So the town is really fickle.
-Yeah. -Also you put on that...
On top of that being a woman,
and you put on top of that, being a woman of color.
-Right. -Um...
You know, there's just a feeling of, like, "Let me get it in while I can."
Did you ever think, like, when you were a little girl,
-that you were gonna be director... -No.
...and be on the Disney lot making a $100 million movie?
I did not.
-What'd you think you were gonna be? -A lawyer.
-Really? -Yeah, I wanted to be
a lawyer when I was little.
-What kind of lawyer? -Civil rights.
-Nice. -Yep. I remember getting a briefcase
for my eighth birthday and thinking,
"There it is.
-Few short steps from the courtroom." -[laughing]
Yes, I really was, like, "Yeah, this is my bag,"
-with that briefcase. -Yeah.
Well, I've played a lawyer, and sometimes I think I am a lawyer.
But I'm not.
-[laughing] -Turns out I'm not.
People think I'm a lawyer, too.
I once had to be on jury duty or something,
and I was part of the jury,
and everybody made me the jury foreman. I was, like,
"I just want to be clear, people.
I did not go to Harvard Law School."
-[laughing] -"That was a movie
and it didn't really happen."
-It's crazy, the power of movies. -I love that. I love it.
Did you have a moment where you were, like...
Why did you want to direct?
I didn't pick up a camera until I was 32 years old.
I was a publicist and I was on all kinds of sets.
One day, I was on a set, Michael Mann's set
of a film called Collateral...
-Mmm-hmm. -...and there were a lot of
people of color in the film
and they were shooting in... Very near to where I grew up,
and I though, "Gosh!
I could be making this film." You know what I mean?
"I love the story, and...
I talk to these actors all the time,
and I have an idea about how that blocking should go.
I think he should probably walk there
instead of there, but, okay, if that's how you
want him to walk," you know,
and, you know, just had ideas for the first time on that set
-of movie-making. -I remember thinking,
"Jada, take off your high heels
-while you're running." -[laughs]
I said it to Michael Mann, too. I go, "I love that whole movie,
-but if she didn't take off those--" -She would have flung those things off.
"Take those damn high heels off and run for your life, girl."
-[laughing] Yes, exactly. Yes. -Right?
-Things like that. Right? -[chuckles]
-Yes. -So you're on a set,
and you're observing it and that was the first film,
there was something about the alchemy
of being in a place where I grew up and really knowing that neighborhood.
-Mmm-hmm. -Seeing the people of color.
It was Jada, it was Jamie, it was Javier Bardem...
-Yes, he's amazing. -...in a very early role,
and then they had these new cameras, the digital cameras,
he was working with early for the first time,
it was the first time that I'd seen them on a set,
how easy it was to kind of work with them.
Because there was something about always watching that process
as a publicist on set where I was, like,
"I don't know what that is."
-'Cause I didn't go to film school. -Right.
-So, the technicality of that scared me... -Mmm-hmm.
...and made me think, "I can never learn that."
But once these new digital cameras came,
I was, like, "Oh, just push that button and let's start."
-And we're going. -I thought, "Well, wow."
There's a lot more to the film-making
than the technical aspects of lenses and all those things
gave me permission
-as someone who wasn't formally trained... -Right.
...to look more closely at the more creative aspects of it...
-Yeah. -...that I felt, you know,
fully ready to jump into.
Did you ever feel nervous to ask questions?
Oh, um...
Yeah, I think it was really important when I first started
to surround myself with people who I felt comfortable asking questions.
Yeah, that's so important.
But, yeah, I cobbled together that film-school experience for myself,
didn't ever sit in a classroom,
I would watch DVD commentaries of directors.
I was like, "This is... Is this legal?"
-[laughing] -So this person is just gonna
walk me through every single thing they did to make this movie.
-Yeah. -And it's on every movie
-ever made? -Every DVD.
-I know. -Uh, yeah.
So, all that to say,
-there are different ways to learn. -Mmm-hmm.
And we as women, you know, are often taught...
I think one of the big challenges in moving into new spaces
is that we...
It's put forth that the best way to achieve,
that there is one way to achieve.
Right. Mmm-hmm.
It's the formal route, it's the route the guys have gone,
it's the route these certain people have gone.
-Right. -And I'm never gonna be Steven Spielberg.
I'm never gonna...
I did not have a Super 8 camera when I was eight years old.
-I don't have any of that. -Right.
I only had what was inside of me
and I had to be able to tell myself that's enough.
-Right. -And to step forth
with what I could get my hands on.
That's incredible. That was my favorite moment...
-Oh... [laughs] -...on your Instagram.
[Reese reading]
-[DuVernay] Oh, yeah. -That made me so happy.
[DuVernay] That was our first day of shooting our movie.
And it was so emotional for me, I saw that...
'Cause I wasn't there the first day, and I was, like,
-"That just says it all, doesn't it?" -[laughing]
People that came before us,
-wouldn't they be shocked? -Yeah. They'd be shocked.
They'd be... They'd be proud.
-Yeah. It's major. -Yeah.
You really are changing the way that people see the world...
-Wow. Thank you. -...and I loved being on your set.
It was the first time
I'd been on a movie set
where everybody there was reflective
-of the world we live in. -[DuVernay] Mmm.
[Reese] There were 50% women,
-there were people of color, LGBTQ. -[DuVernay] Mmm-hmm.
[Reese] It was the most diverse below-the-line crew
that I'd ever seen in my life.
-That thrills me to hear. -It was wonderful,
and as a woman who's been in the business for over 25 years,
and I started as a little girl,
and I used to to be the only woman in a movie,
-and there were no people of color. -No.
I would love to hear more about how... First of all,
-how you're implementing that. -Mmm-hmm.
What you say to studios when you bring that idea to them.
Yeah, well, you know, it's a new idea,
and so I have to be patient
-with folks in the industry unions... -Mmm-hmm.
...and studios, networks, production companies,
um, and... and be aware of the fact
that this is a learning process for everyone.
-But this is a demand. -Yes.
I do not work otherwise.
[clears throat] I need to make sure that we have an inclusive set.
I feel like that's the most healthy environment
for optimal creativity, for me, anyway.
And I feel like it's something that we should be implementing industry-wide.
I think the challenge is...
And you may find this as well, you'll hear it a lot.
"Like, I need a woman, a sound re-recordist."
"Yeah. Oh, but there aren't any.
I don't know, I don't think..." Well, find one.
-And you find them. -And they are.
And they are! There's a woman in every category.
-Yeah. -There's a person of color
-in every category. -It's true.
You know, and then there's also another thing that I've been really
looking at in terms of crews as well, is ageism.
-Yes. -You know, we have a sense of
everyone kind of being, you know,
the spry, you know, 20, 30, 40-year-old.
But you have incredible people...
-Mmm. -...who have been working
in this business for decades who have so much to offer.
That's so true.
They start to kind of just fall out of favor,
-because they're just older. -Yeah.
So, I just think when we talk about inclusivity, it's not just race,
it's not just gender, there are a lot of other pieces of the puzzle
and it's the right thing to do.
Talk to me a little bit about... This is important.
How you met Oprah?
[laughing]
Because I love her so much.
I know. You two hit it off.
-I mean, I just... -You two really hit it off.
I mean, of course, I'm gonna love Oprah, and I'm just...
But she loves you, too.
-I just love her... -She really does.
...and getting to spend every day with her for four hours...
-Yeah. -...and just really hear her deep wisdom
that she also imparted to this incredible character...
-Mmm-hmm. -...just really moved me.
It really changed me in a lot of ways.
-Yeah. -I'm curious how you all met.
I think that was a surprise for me too,
-is how normal she is. -Mmm-hmm.
Um, you know,
just in terms of being willing to share, to talk,
to give advice and ask questions or...
You know, whenever she asks me a question, I'm like,
-"You asking me that question?" -Yeah.
-She values your opinion. -You know what I mean? "Are you asking
-my opinion about anything?" -Yeah.
And, so, it's beautiful, and it's definitely nourishing.
But I met her through our mutual friend
-David Oyelowo... -Okay.
-...who played Dr. King in Selma. -Yes.
Before he played Dr. King in Selma,
he was in a very small independent film that I made called Middle of Nowhere.
-Yes. -We made this small film in South Central
for $200,000.
They were making The Butler.
-He was playing her son... -Right.
-Oh, yes, okay. -[clears throat]
...and he didn't really have a full grasp on the Oprah-ness of Oprah.
-I mean, he's a boy... -'Cause he's English.
-Boy from Britain, right? -Right.
So he just said, "Hey, will you watch this film
that my friend made?"
And I remember when he told me that I was like,
"You just said that to Oprah Winfrey like a normal person?"
He was, like, "Yeah, I was just sitting there
in the trailer with her and I just asked her."
And he's like, "So what'd she say?"
She said, "Yeah." Well, she just said yeah.
So I was so freaked out.
-[chuckles] -So, they said, "Send her the link."
And I remember preparing the email with the link,
like, double-checking the link
and then double-checking the email address.
-And your spelling. -"No, that's not good enough, delete!"
Start again, like, ridiculous.
"Dear Oprah..."
-"Hello." -"Hello."
-She watched it and she tweeted me back... -Oh, wow.
...saying how much she enjoyed it
-and good job. -[sighs]
And so from there, we just started to be connected.
The way she tells it,
she had looked me up on the Internet, googled me.
-Yeah. -And saw me with my glasses and thought,
"That looks like a nice girl to be friends with."
Aw!
-Thanks, glasses. -[laughs]
And, so, yeah, that's how it started.
She really cultivated a friendship with me,
because I was too freaked out to be a normal person.
-So, for about the first year... -Mmm.
...I was very weird.
-Oh, you were? -Oh, yeah, she'd come into the room...
"Yeah?" She's say hello, and I'd be, "Hello."
Like, just not a normal conversation.
-Right. -For a good year.
I'd be nervous, too. I was nervous when I met her.
Yeah, but you're also Reese Witherspoon. Like, you...
But I had met her on the show and I was nervous and then--
What did you go on for?
-I was on for Walk the Line... -Walk the line.
...and she made me cry, I had my full Oprah moment.
-Did you? That's the best! -Yes.
I talked to her about my English teacher, fully sobbed.
-[laughs] That's so cool. -But she does that.
She, like, cracks you open.
-Wow. Yeah. -There's a great...
That's a vulnerability that,
you know, you're in front of her, but it's also a gift she has
-to open people up. -Yeah.
I think when you sit in front of her,
you realize that she's open, so it makes you
want to match that in some way.
For sure.
So, shall we go, maybe see some...
Yeah, let's go.
I want you to show me something. I want to be surprised.
My next session is sound editing.
-Let's go. -Excellent.
Prepare yourself for my terrible driving.
Mmm!
Reese is gonna drive the golf cart.
Literally, my kids make fun of me.
They're, like, "Mom, you're the worst driver ever."
So do you know where you're going?
I think I know this lot really well,
because I used to work here.
-When I was in high school... -You used to work here?
...I did an internship on the Disney lots
when I was 17 years old,
because I wanted to learn
-more about my business. -But you were a star by then.
-You were an actress. -No.
I was an actress, but I wanted to learn more.
So, one year, I did an internship with Carl Franklin
-on Devil in a Blue Dress. -Oh, Carl Franklin.
On a Denzel Washington movie, which was super-fun.
-Great film. I agree. Great film. -And I learned so much.
I love that you wanted to know more.
You were already acting.
-Babe... -That could have been all.
But you, even at that time, were curious.
I've always been a really, like,
curious person and a huge nerd.
[laughing]
Ah!
-Cool! -[imitates screeching brakes]
[Reese] So, you do your sound editing here?
Yeah, all the sound mixing
-and sound design. -Okay, mixing.
So, come on into the sound mix stage.
[gasps] Wow!
This is our sound stage.
-Hi! -[Doug Parker] Hello.
-Hi, Ava, how are you? -[DuVernay] Hi there.
-Hey, I'm Reese. -Good to see you again.
-Reese, Doug Parker. -Hey, Doug.
-[Julie Pearce] Hey. -[DuVernay] How you doing?
Good to see you.
Julie Pearce, my long-time music editor.
-[Reese] Aw, this is so exciting. -Yes, yes.
So, we're gonna look at a little bit of
how we put all of the sound pieces together.
-Perfect. -The dialogue, with the effects,
-with the music. -Okay.
-Yes. -Awesome.
So, we just layer them all on these tracks here
and it's really about mixing them together.
It's a really intricate part of the film-making process
that most people don't even know exists.
And, you know, Julie, specifically has been with me forever.
She's a music editor, and so she cuts the music
around the dialogue and the effects.
I mean, it's really a testament
to the cool jobs that are behind the scenes...
-Mmm-hmm. -...in film-making.
I mean, the actor and the director often are the ones
that you hear about.
-Yeah. -But, I mean, amazing
and such, you know, cool other gigs.
I think a lot of people don't know, it takes hundreds of people
to make one movie.
[DuVernay] When you see those credits at the end of a film, those are
a lot of people who went into making what you just enjoyed.
Yeah.
[Parker] All right, you guys ready to go?
-[Reese] Yes. -[DuVernay] Yeah.
Imagine 91 billion light years traveled...
Like that.
[Reese] It's so exciting to see everything put together.
Ava has such an amazingly strong vision
and the way she sees the world is so specific.
It's incredible to see her bring all that creativity to the screen.
-Whoo! -Yeah!
-Oh, my gosh, that's amazing! -[DuVernay] So good.
-Thanks so much for sharing, guys. -Thank you.
-Appreciate you. -This is awesome.
-Yeah, thanks. -Nice to meet you.
So nice meeting you.
Okay, do I get to ask you about your Barbie?
Oh, my Barbie! You have a Barbie.
[Reese] Well, I had a Legally Blonde Barbie.
But you had a Barbie that was, like,
about you.
[DuVernay laughs] Pretty cool.
[Reese] Which is so amazing. Did you have to pick your outfit?
-Yeah, they let me pick my outfit. Yeah. -Oh, my God.
[DuVernay] They gave me my little director's chair.
-[Reese] I love that. -But I think the main thing is
the representation of black girls,
seeing different jobs, different things that are possible.
-I think so, too. -You know?
-Hi there. Hi, y'all. How are you? -Hi.
It's so cute when I see little girls, like, out auditioning and stuff.
-That was me when I was little. -That was you.
And I had some really nice female executives
who'd take me to lunch and really mentor me.
-Yeah, they were really nice to me. -They saw some kind of good,
a light in you.
They really encouraged me to be very ambitious,
which is awesome.
-Here we are. -Very good.
-Okay. -[laughs]
[Reese] I remember when I met you, you had this incredible confidence
and I had just come from a meeting
with a woman that had
no confidence as a director and it was really hard for her
and she didn't get the job because she didn't present well,
and I feel like it's scary to be in job interviews and...
It is.
But I do have something that I always...
Always tell folks about job interviews.
-Okay. -And it's something that I learned
when I was the one doing the hiring.
-Mmm. -When I became the one doing the hiring,
I would wake up in the morning, thinking,
"Oh, please let one of these five people I'm gonna see be the one
who's gonna help me..."
-Yes. -"...and fill that job."
-Okay. -And so, when you go into a job interview,
they want to hear
you be the one.
-Yes. -Right?
They don't want to see you nervous,
they don't want to hear the question, "Am I the one?"
They want someone who is capable, who is smart,
who is passionate. Whether you know how to do it or not,
you just want someone who's gonna try, who's gonna be loyal,
all the things that you already have.
That's such good advice,
'cause I say almost the same thing to people who are auditioning.
-Hmm. -Which is the same thing
-as a job interview. -Yeah. Absolutely.
I think in my mind, "Give me the ball,"
because people just want to know
-that you're gonna handle it. -That's right.
And even if you don't know what you're doing, you're like...
-"I'm gonna figure it out." -"I'll figure it out later."
And half the time, I would get parts and I'd be like...
"Now I don't know what to do."
Right.
But I do think my parents
really encouraged me to be very
-positive and confident. -Yes.
You know, they just said, "You're capable of anything."
Yeah, but I think just knowing a little bit about how you grew up...
We grew up with women and with families
who allowed us to do things.
-Yes. -We weren't coddled.
-Right? -No.
-We got out there and we did it. -Right.
We opened the door on our own, washed the dishes on our own,
we went to this place on our own,
we, you know, explored the world on our own, right?
-Yeah. -So, I think it's a lot about
something in the culture right now that kids, um...
People are so afraid for their kids.
-Mmm-hmm. -Maybe not allowing them
just to do more of the...
The thing that embeds in them a sense of, "I can do this on my own."
-Right. -And the earlier you can start that,
I think the more you start to, you know, cultivate a confidence in kids.
-"I can do this," you know? -Yeah.
There's something about the act of doing it.
-Doing creates more doing. -That's right.
Whenever people get stuck, I just say, "Do something."
-Yeah. -Take a job you don't want
to learn what you do want.
I really believe that some of the best creativity
happens within limits, you know?
Limits that are put upon us, you know?
We have to find creative ways out of it.
-Getting older as an actress... -Mmm-hmm.
...I started to see the parts go away.
-Mmm-hmm. -I started seeing things diminish.
I mean, I knew I had an audience out there.
-I needed to connect with them directly. -Right.
And social media gave me this incredible confidence
having this audience to go,
"I gonna make movies that are gonna show and reflect what they wanna see now."
Yes.
And then it made me start a production company, I was, like,
"Oh, people like the books that I'm reading."
And, "I'm just gonna buy them and make them movies."
-Right. -But it came out of the scarcity...
-Yes, yes. -...of roles for myself.
-Yes, yes. -Can you talk a little bit about
why you created Array?
Well, I saw women and people of color making films,
but they weren't making it to theaters
and audiences weren't connecting to them. Right?
You'd hear about films that went to Sundance
and went to all these film festivals, and they would never show up in a theater.
-Right. -Right?
And these are the places, these are the spaces
where the most women and people of color were making films.
But they weren't connecting with audiences.
-So, that's what Array is. -Right.
It's to say, "This is the work of women and people of color.
You all are audiences that wanna..." Audiences of all kinds
that wanna see different images, different stories,
we'll be the connector to put you two together.
So, we distribute films,
-we create events like the one... -[Reese] Yes.
...where we bring great film-maker Julie Dash
with Daughters of the Dust
and we connect her to an audience
-that isn't familiar with her work. -[Reese] Yeah.
When we do that all around the country,
and then we've been doing it going into our tenth year.
-Wow. -Yeah.
-That's amazing. -So, what I'm really
interested in is, like, the place that we are,
where we are able to make films and really having a challenging time
finding people to make the films with us.
-Right. -So, I'm really interested in exposing
more communities of color, communities of women
-to all of the jobs below the line. -Yes.
And just to talk about sort of cultural change in our business...
-Obviously, there's a lot going on with... -Mmm.
-...harassment and abuse. -Yeah.
I think the change with anything,
even as I studied the civil rights movement,
with Selma or the criminal justice system with 13.
-All change starts from awareness. -Mmm-hmm.
So, what we're going through right now is a really painful awakening.
-Uh... -It is painful.
It is. It is.
And it's happening not just in the entertainment industry.
It might have started with us, with a very high-profile case,
but now you see it
careening through our society in every space.
-Yeah. -Politics,
-sports, you know what I mean? -Tech world.
-Fashion, tech world. -Yeah.
-Finance. -Publish... publishing.
-Yeah. -Everyone is coming to terms with this
and reckoning. There's a reckoning that's happening.
I think that that's the first layer of it.
The next layer is to make sure that it is not just a trend...
Yes. Or a hashtag.
Or a hashtag. So, it's about the systemic,
you know, really investigating and exploring
what is the system, what are the foundations
that have allowed this to flourish.
Yeah. And challenging institutions to do better...
-Absolutely. -...and raise awareness. And I think
it's finally time that people are allowed to speak up and be heard
-and matter... -That's right.
-...and feel valued. -That's right. Absolutely. Absolutely.
But we know there's a history of protests and resistance
and whether it's marches or boycotts,
you know, that these things really work,
and so I think right now we're in a time where people feel afraid...
-Yeah. -...and hopeless in some ways
and powerless with so many shifts in the political spectrum
and in our culture.
-But what we do have is our voice. -Yeah.
And so we just have to encourage each other
to keep speaking up.
Yeah. I think art is the antidote, too.
-I do, too. -Well, thank you so much
for doing this, Ava.
-You're such a huge inspiration to me. -Thank you.
I always love sitting with you and just think the world of you,
so thank you for... Thank you for this.
-I know you've got to get back to editing. -We'll be seeing each other...
-But thank you for taking the time. Yes. -Back to the editing room.
[chuckles]
[Reese] You can just walk straight to visual effects.
Literally, I am. It's in that building.
Do you want me to drive you over there?
In a golf cart?
[theme music playing]